Q&A: 'THE CLEANING LADY' Creator Miranda Kwok on the Transformative Power of Art (Part 2)
In this second part of our conversation, the screenwriter walks me through how art has become both her way of trying to change the world...and surviving it
Miranda Kwok, creator of hit Fox television series “THE CLEANING LADY”, has spent the better part of her life in a reciprocal relationship with her art. As she creates it, it seems to create her back. At the heart of this dynamic is her drive to inspire empathy and understanding for marginalized groups and communities. Film and television, for her, can literally change the world. I happen to agree with her and consider it a foundational part of my own artistic identity, which is one of the reasons why I was so moved and inspired by my two-part artist-on-artist conversation with her.
Be sure to read Part 1 before you continue, but if you want to skip that step, here’s a recap of Miranda and her story. She’s a Canadian-born screenwriter who began her career as an actor. She broke into Hollywood staffing on my friend Steven S. DeKnight’s television series, “SPARTACUS”, before moving on to “THE 100” for several seasons. Everything changed in 2019 when Fox greenlit “THE CLEANING LADY”, which she created. Despite the challenges of shooting during COVID, the series was an immediate hit when it hit the air. In Season 2, Miranda was promoted to co-showrunner alongside Season 1’s showrunner Melissa Carter. A third season is on the way, which she’ll be back for, as well.
In Part 2 of this Q&A, screenwriters might want to pay attention to how Miranda originated her take on the Argentinian television series “THE CLEANING LADY” is adapted from and how she addressed tone notes from Warner Bros. regarding the pilot. All storytellers can benefit from our discussion of the role of art in an increasingly dark and dangerous world.
CH: I want to return to “THE CLEANING LADY”, which is adapted from an Argentinian series called “LA CHICA QUE LIMPIA”. How did it find its way to you?
MK: This all falls under the blind script deal I mentioned earlier.
CH: Can you explain what that means for people who aren’t in the business yet?
MK: How it works with a blind is that I got a deal to develop something with Warner Bros., but when the initial deal was done, we hadn’t identified a project yet. So, in our first meeting, I pitched them a few ideas, and they pitched me a few ideas that they had optioned or were circling - and one of them was “THE CLEANING LADY.”
Shay Mitchell had found the original Argentinian format, so Warner Bros. had optioned it for her. Then they went out to their stable of writers who had deals or relationships with the studio to see who would be interested in developing it, and whoever was interested would pitch a take. So I pitched a take that involved an undocumented Southeast Asian doctor living with her mixed-status family in Vegas along with the central themes and the direction of the series, including what kinds of crimes and worlds she might get into to save her child and ultimately become a crime boss of her own - and they decided to develop the project with me.
CH: Four years ago, you were a supervising producer on “THE 100”. You were certainly very experienced by that point, but suggesting you were in a place of any kind of true career security would be silly, I imagine. I was recently chatting about this with my friend Max Borenstein, co-creator of “WINNING TIME: THE RISE OF THE LAKERS DYNASTY”, for this same artist interview series, about how rare it is for screenwriters to have any real choice about what they pursue. We just pursue what has a chance of paying the bills. So, it’s fair to suggest “THE CLEANING LADY” just began as a job, is the point — a format you were given the opportunity to chase – but I get the sense from everything I’ve read from you about the series and your work on the series itself that it was more than that for you. So, tell me, what was it about the concept of “LA CHICA QUE LIMPIA” that grabbed you, that wouldn’t let go, that compelled you to care so much?
“I’m not sure I even thought “THE CLEANING LADY” would ever sell. I wasn’t really thinking about the end game. It was more about finding a story that I would be passionate about telling.”
MK: Well, I wouldn’t say that “THE CLEANING LADY” was ever just a job that I thought could pay the bills. Quite frankly, I’m not sure I even thought it would ever sell. I wasn’t really thinking about the end game. It was more about finding a story that I would be passionate about telling.
MK (cont’d): What I loved about the original concept was that it was the story of an underdog who ultimately found her way out of a situation that she was forced into. But what really excited me was expanding that into a story about an undocumented immigrant who was constantly undermined and marginalized despite that she was a respected doctor in her own country. Someone who would ultimately break down all the barriers that were put in front of her and take charge of her own circumstances. I wanted to really delve into the humanity of this character and the struggles she faced and show her incredible resilience and strength despite everyone who underestimated her.
“What really compelled me to care so much was actually putting a Southeast Asian woman at the forefront of the story.”
What really compelled me to care so much was actually putting a Southeast Asian woman at the forefront of the story. And specifically telling the perspective of Filipino characters - something that had never really been done on mainstream television in any meaningful way. That, more than anything else, is what drove me to craft a story that could sell. I wanted to tell a story that mattered. A story that taught people something about another culture and other people. A story that taught people to care.
CH: I’m always curious how TV creators take a world that began as someone else’s baby, something that was deeply personal to someone whose life experience is always going to be wildly different and, then, make it their own. How did you accomplish this?
MK: I guess to me, everything that I added to the original concept was so deeply personal that I considered it my own baby. The show isn’t just about the circumstances — or the plot — about a cleaning lady who ends up working for the mob. It’s about the characters, the humanity of who these people are at the core, and the characters I created are so personal to me and my experiences. Even the idea to have the leading characters be Southeast Asian came from an experience I had while traveling in Hong Kong years ago.
CH: How so?
“The impact of seeing that never left me. When I realized I could tell just a piece of that story, that’s what compelled me to hold onto this and not let go.”
MK: It was a Sunday afternoon and I came across hundreds of Filipinos congregating on the street, sitting on flayed-open cardboard boxes and plastic bags because they had nowhere else to go. Sunday was their only day off, but they didn’t have homes and no money to go anywhere. They were the nannies and housekeepers and other overseas Filipino workers who were being treated like second-class citizens, and the impact of seeing that never left me. When I realized I could tell just a piece of that story, that’s what compelled me to hold onto this and not let go.
Then there’s the character of Fiona who was inspired by one of my dearest friends Louella who shared so much of her personal story with me, and that’s why this friendship and sisterhood between Thony and Fiona became such an integral part of this show. And of course, just putting an Asian family on a dramatic television show was also very important to me, especially showing mothers who would do anything for their children, no matter what the cost. We hear about mothers and parents who sacrifice everything, but what does that really mean? I wanted to show those kinds of sacrifices to honor my mother and so many other immigrants who faced so many challenges. And how they overcame them.
CH: What about your take provided you with the biggest challenge?
MK: One of the biggest was how to tackle the issue of undocumented immigration. While it is extremely topical, it is also a very delicate issue, and as Warner Bros. put it, we had to make sure to give candy with our medicine. No one wants to be beat over the head with issues. So, the question was always, what is the aspirational element of the show? Where can we find hope? And fun? And levity? And, of course, much of that comes from the family – their love and warmth and joy. They are the beating heart of the show.
CH: Can you give me an example of how you struck this balance in the pilot?
MK: In the pilot, the sisters go out and hit the town. We have the sexiness and sumptuousness of Vegas. And, of course, the sexy romance with Arman developing. All that provided balance to the darker elements of the show, the parts that were more uncomfortable, even though those are the elements that ultimately grab you by the jugular and won’t let go.
“No one wants to be beat over the head with issues. So, the question was always, what is the aspirational element of the show?”
CH: As you say, undocumented immigration can be a delicate issue. Controversial might be the better word for it. Did you run into any serious roadblocks with Warner Bros. on the subject?
MK: I wouldn’t say roadblocks. We all knew what we were trying to accomplish, and so we had some very thoughtful discussions on the matter. For example, while I was developing the pitch and pilot story, that was when there were unprecedented ICE raids across the county. And they were devastating. Six-hundred-and-eighty undocumented immigrants were rounded up in six cities on the first day of school, and all their kids were left abandoned and crying, not knowing if they’d ever see their parents again. It was so utterly heartless and intentionally cruel. And at that point, I knew we had to do an ICE raid on the show. Without question. But the big question was when. When I suggested doing it in the pilot, Warner Bros. was, like, “Well, maybe not in the pilot…maybe mid-season or even towards the end of the season.” So, then I pitched Fiona gets arrested in the finale and Thony has to do whatever she can to save her.” Warner Bros. totally recognized how important — or rather, how crucial it was — but while they initially wanted to wait, we agreed on one key thing: Let’s have the audience fall in love with our characters first. So, that’s exactly what we did. And fortunately, that’s what happened. People fell in love with Thony and Fiona and the whole family, and when we ended up doing the ICE raid mid-season instead of in the finale, even more conservative audience members, people who are completely against undocumented immigration, said they didn’t want them to get deported and were crying for them by the end of that episode.
CH: Was there anything about the pilot that proved problematic, something you had to overcome, once you got your greenlight?
MK: I guess one of the biggest challenges was finding the right cast, but the way to overcome this was never giving up. Both Warner Bros. and Fox were very excited about telling this story from a Southeast Asian perspective and putting underrepresented faces on screen, but the casting process proved to be challenging because it was such a specific voice and such a specific character.
Our casting directors searched far and wide, doing casting sessions in L.A., N.Y., Toronto, Vancouver, the U.K., and Australia. But when all the options that we put forward didn’t pan out, there was a moment when certain people were questioning whether we should move beyond Asian women. But I couldn’t let that happen.
CH: What do you mean by that?
MK: I did a deep dive on the internet and put another list together of women we hadn’t seen yet, and that’s when we finally found the incredibly talented Élodie Yung who ended up being the perfect person to play our strong, intelligent, resilient, multi-faceted, multi-layered hero.
MK (cont’d): Once Élodie was cast, our casting directors found the equally amazingly talented Martha Millan to play Fiona. Once we saw their very palpable chemistry together, we knew they would be the heart of the show. And, as I mentioned before, the rest of the family was cast after the pandemic began, but that just allowed us to find the perfect family with Sean Lew, Faith Bryant, and Sebastian and Valentino LaSalle. Finding the right talent that fit the vision of the show took more time than usually allotted during pilot season, but it was all worth it.
CH: Okay, we’re approaching the end of our conversation, which has, I think, equal parts entertained and inspired me.
MK: Oh, thank you! I’m so honored to be included in these artist conversations
CH: I have two final questions. As for the first…you’ve spent your entire adult life largely focused on the marginalized, the abused, the victims. You’ve described some of your work as trying to give voices to the voiceless. What does art mean to someone like you?
“So many people may be marginalized in society, but their stories are extraordinary. If only people took the time to see them, hear them, and learn about them.”
MK: I think that art is not only about self-expression, but a means of expressing or communicating perspectives that aren’t necessarily our own. Getting people to see outside of themselves. Getting them to understand different points of view so they can understand each other better. It’s about understanding and responding to and learning from the plight of others. Then you’re not seeing certain people as victims, but as survivors. You’re not dismissing people who appear voiceless when you realize they are often silent heroes.
So many people may be marginalized in society, but their stories are extraordinary. If only people took the time to see them, hear them, and learn about them – their courage, their resilience, their resourcefulness. It’s about building empathy and compassion, but also seeing the brilliance and beauty and strength in everyone and everything. Art is about unfolding the many layers of humanity. Capturing the essence of our ever-evolving souls. And allowing us to relate to each other and transform each other in a visceral, emotional, spiritual, and heartfelt way.
CH: Again, beautifully put, Miranda.
CH (cont’d): Last question. I find my relationship to darkness intimidating. I swim in it as a form of exorcism, of self-purging, but also need to know when it’s time to get out of the water to catch my breath, I guess you’d say. It’s a weird psychic dance I do to survive the 21st century. As an artist, what is your emotional relationship to darkness like these days given so much of the content of this conversation? How do you keep yourself from drowning in it and where do you find the light?
MK: I think it’s something we all deal with. And it takes a lot of courage to acknowledge it, but that acknowledgment is the first step in taking control of it. As you said, knowing when to get out of the water.
There have definitely been times when I’ve felt there was so much pain and anguish and cruelty in the world, it’s overwhelming. I’ve had my share of existential crises. But that darkness is also what drives me. And so, I draw strength from it.
“I fiercely believe that light can conquer darkness. I have to believe it because I refuse to drown in it. And now it’s become my purpose.”
Your metaphor actually reminds me of a time in high school when I was helping a friend through something, and a guidance counselor said to me something like, “When someone is drowning, you can't save them if they’re dragging you down with them.” And it really pissed me off. I thought, what kind of advice is that? I’m not going to not help my friend, but I’m also not going to drown with them. So even though that guidance counselor pissed me off, I decided I was going to defy him. I was going to help my friend and make sure I was strong enough not to drown. And I think that’s still the way I approach things. I defy the darkness. I find strength in light. And in love. And I fiercely believe that light can conquer darkness. I have to believe it because I refuse to drown in it. And now it’s become my purpose. But what’s important for us all to know, is that light comes from within. It’s in all of us. And the more light and love and compassion we can all shed on the world, the less darkness there will be.
You can find Miranda Kwok on Twitter. “THE CLEANING LADY” will return for a third season when the studios and streamers agree to the WGA and SAG-AFTRA’s demands that their members be paid fairly for their labor.
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