Wow! Thank you for your “non”-review! I haven’t had a chance to see the movie yet, and it being “concert” season, it will have to wait a week or two. I read the book about 20 years ago and saw the play 7 years ago (thankfully not quite as upsetting as the book - songs help). I look at the rest of the “first” world and realize how far behind the US is in so many ways. I’m a white woman who knows many white women and we all voted for Harris. I just don’t get it….
The problem America has long had is its slogan that it's the leader of the free world, which confuses reality since most of the rest of the "free world" is much freer than it. It helps when you don't travel overseas either and rely on Fox News to tell you what other people live like. As for the white women who voted for Harris, there are many who did (like you and my wife!) There are more who did not, and that's been a problem for a very long time - including with Hillary Clinton, whom white women also didn't support as a majority. The country's overall disdain for women is so culturally ingrained, I've even come to believe that many "Harris voters" were secretly Trump voters in the booth. I try to tell myself this is simply the last gasp of a dying way of thinking, but this gasp is going to be extremely lethal and life-damaging, I fear...
There’s so much I could say about my experiences as a late Boomer woman growing up in the US, most of it painful. I think we must be raised to see other women as rivals instead of allies. It’s disheartening. As to leader of the free world and its companion, greatest nation, the now famous clip of Jeff Daniels’ answer to a question in the show The Newsroom says it best for me, even if some of the stats might be a bit dated. I LOVE my country, but by what measure are we “the greatest nation on earth?”
Interesting read and peaked my curiosity, considered buying tickets for my girls in Florida, but then saw the ticket prices, that don't include popcorn, etc. Understand why many will wait till it can be seen at home, and now wondering if it gets banned like our books? Not ruling out anything these days.
If you give it a couple of weeks, I'm sure a morning screening will drop in price. I know money is tight for most of us these days, but it's definitely a film girls need to see, in my opinion. As for Florida and the possibility of art getting banned...I'm not ruling anything out either, so don't let them make you feel crazy for thinking it's a possibility.
I only worry about what I can control. Years of working in DC has me too jaded. Do have some FOMO on getting to see this movie as 1000 miles away from my household in a very rural community no going to the movies for me. Would involve carrying two oxygen tanks, my wheelchair and too much risk with a compromised immune system thanks to chemo drugs. But I do like to keep up and see to it that my all female next three generations in my Florida home are exposed to arts that aide in sparking their critical thinking in the land of closed minds there.
Then you are seeing it in the absolute best way for you and your family. It sounds like life is challenging at the moment, and I'm sorry to hear that. I hope it gets easier soon.
I can't promise it will be for you, but it's the perfect film if you cathartically need to scream "fuck you" at America right now - not to mention muster a little hope and defiance.
I wasn't sure if last night I was ready for a two-hour forty minute film that started at 10:30pm after commercials, but I went. SO glad I did. I didn't know the story (other than the traditional classic tale), but the time went by like a shot, and I'm actually making plans to go see it again with my wife, who had seen it while on a trip to visit our kids in San Francisco last week.
A couple quick thoughts - the part that really "got" me wasn't Elphaba grasping the broomstick. Going in blind, (spoilers here for anyone else reading) I thought she was the wicked witch who died at the beginning of the film. Experiencing her innocence and hopes and dreams as she sang, "The Wizard and I," it still makes me tear up thinking about it even now, even though I know more about where everything is headed.
The rest of the story is, of course, even more resonant today through so many of the movie's threads - secret meetings, speech police, authoritarian tactics, etc.
I was discussing this with my wife as well, and I wondered why some of the people in our family who also liked the film didn't have any issue with its message (based on what are usually hyper-tuned "Hollywood woke-ism" detectors in said family members). She said she didn't think they got the message. My wife thinks people really need to be hit over the head with it, or they don't see it. I'm asking how do they not see it? I wasn't a fan of "Don't Look Up" when it came out because I thought it was WAY too on-the-nose, but I know many people who loved it for that very reason.
I'm currently about halfway through the fourth season of "The Boys," and the showrunner apparently decided the same thing because they're laying it on REALLY thick this season - to the point where they're using the actual messaging we hear from the right. I remember reading how shocked some viewers were that the show had "suddenly" turned its main character into a villain. How did they not know that these were villains from seasons one through three??
I guess I shouldn't be surprised. I'm a huge Trek fan and I remember people getting upset with "too much diversity" in the newer shows. I think maybe I just don't understand people. Can we have hope as writers that the stories we want to tell will have an impact even if people don't actively recognize the real stories we're telling?
Anyway. I loved the movie, and will be eagerly awaiting the continuation. In fact, now I'm probably (selfishly) going to have to surprise my wife with Broadway tickets for our anniversary in April.
Thanks again for the recommendation. As I said, this isn't something I ever would have seen otherwise.
EDIT: Oh, and sorry my "couple of quick thoughts" turned into an essay.
Hahaha, I don't mind essays! Though I am out in Sydney today, and I can't give it a full response. What I can say is that people see what they want to see. "THE BOYS" plays like a super-hero story for fascism if you have fascist inclinations. I think of it as a Rorschach test, to some degree. The showrunner certainly decided it was time to blow up their fantasies.
I'm so glad you enjoyed the film, though. Do we have to hit people over the head with it? I worry in this culture, where everything is so lost in nonsense, where nobody even has a clear sense of right and wrong anymore...maybe? Sigh.
It's all good, Cole. I wasn't interested because it wasn't targeted at me. But some of my most favorite pieces of art often turn out to be things that were out of my view but that someone I respect recommended. I'll go in open, and yeah - I'm in the mood to scream "fuck you" at America right now, so anything that matches that mood is well worth $20. Keep up the good work. And thank you.
I haven't seen the movie or the stage show, but I've been aware of the plot details for a while, and I've read your article…
So, serious question:
How can this be set up as anything besides an awful tragedy if this story shows the main character isn't an evil witch but is instead a young righteous freedom fighter, and the Wizard is a manipulative fascist… When everybody knows that at the climax of the Wizard of Oz movie, he succeeds in having her murdered?
It's difficult to answer this question without giving away the ending, which I'm loathe to do in a public space where others could read about it. What I can say is that much of the story is tragic, and its ending is tragic in its own way too, but that ending also comes with a twist victory. There is hope and change to be found...
Thank-you for warning me about the propaganda of Wicked Pt.1 (I know you will love Wicked Pt. 12 as well, as that's what Hollywood does best now: remake a remake of a borrowed story-line of an American classic.) Perhaps we'll get spin-offs with characters named Kamala and Obama. You've save me mucho dinero, 'cause I'm Biden-broke. Just to highlight a point, women who vote for a candidate because that candidate has a vagina (rather than coherent policies) and dark skin (that's called racism) are stupid, and deserve the socio/eonomic position they're in. No political candidate who says things like, "Nothing comes to mind that I would have done differently," will ever be elected president, thank God. All that means is, the candidate hasn't a brain. Back to Hollywood, on second thought, you may not see a Wicked Pt. 2, as few people like to be bludgeoned by obvious propaganda on his own dime .. let alone $15.00 for a ticket!
Hi Jenean, you seem like you're struggling and have nothing left to give the world except anger and frustration. I hope someone is taking care of you this holiday season.
Save you condescending fake pity for someone who needs it. Anger & frustration? Are you nuts? I’m thrilled Trump was re-elected. It means I can travel because gas prices will fall, and I can get out of the grocery store for less than 40.00$! I say prayers of thanksgiving nightly. I’m no Bible-thumper, but I do think this election saved the country from Bolshevism. No, the anger and frustration you hear is the moaning and groaning of the Left (with hair on fire) that drown out the rejoicing going on at the thought of massive deportations that will save lives and the economy. Hallelulia. As for film and Hollywood, prove me wrong … the content and distribution problems are just as bad as the content and quality of the movies today. I really do thank-you for telling me the straight skinny on the film. The last movie I paid to see in a theater is Battleship. Well worth it. But … the movie, sequel, prequel, blah-blah merry-go-wrong is boring. Fast and Furious 5? Saw 5? That makes me made as hell considering I’ve read and written better material than that.
I honestly struggle to understand how you get through the day with so much rage built up inside you. There is good medical care out there, though I know that's not available to everyone and will become more inaccessible going forward. But if you can, anti-depressants have done wonders for many people in my life - though I don't know if they could ever help make BATTLESHIP a better film.
The reason I like Battleship was because of the Mighty Mo. I’m a history kind’a person, so seeing the big ship at sea (CGI, of course) was wonderful. One of my real favorite film clips is the Japanese surrender on the deck with all the men looking on. I thought Midway was good, too. People panned Pearl Harbor, but I like Ben Affleck. The Battleship story was average, but all the battle scenes were better on the big screen, as far as I see it. I’d love to see Zulu on the big screen, although with the size of the screens getting ever bigger, it’s better now. Wait…we saw Top Gun II in the theater. Yeah, but that was a given for the flight-fight scenes. But, my favorite genre is still noir.
Hi Jenean, thank you for sharing your thoughts on some pieces of art you enjoyed. I think it's obvious to you that we don't see politically eye to eye; you spent a lot of time here talking about what you're frustrated about, while I spend much of my time here at Substack talking about other people's pain and suffering -- in between talking about storytelling, art, and culture in general, that is. Specifically, I try to talk about how we can better understand ourselves and form connections with others through these things. Because you avoided any language I find offensive, I tried to treat you with a bit of empathy myself, which you mistake as condescension. It is to a degree, of course, because I think you're grossly misinformed. I don't need to be convinced otherwise. But if you stick around here and read more of my Substack -- and I hope you do -- please know I can't tolerate troll-like rage comments that add nothing to this world. If you want to show up for positive interactions, like this last one, please do. You might also start to understand why I and others see the world differently than you do. Take care of yourself.
Wow! Thank you for your “non”-review! I haven’t had a chance to see the movie yet, and it being “concert” season, it will have to wait a week or two. I read the book about 20 years ago and saw the play 7 years ago (thankfully not quite as upsetting as the book - songs help). I look at the rest of the “first” world and realize how far behind the US is in so many ways. I’m a white woman who knows many white women and we all voted for Harris. I just don’t get it….
The problem America has long had is its slogan that it's the leader of the free world, which confuses reality since most of the rest of the "free world" is much freer than it. It helps when you don't travel overseas either and rely on Fox News to tell you what other people live like. As for the white women who voted for Harris, there are many who did (like you and my wife!) There are more who did not, and that's been a problem for a very long time - including with Hillary Clinton, whom white women also didn't support as a majority. The country's overall disdain for women is so culturally ingrained, I've even come to believe that many "Harris voters" were secretly Trump voters in the booth. I try to tell myself this is simply the last gasp of a dying way of thinking, but this gasp is going to be extremely lethal and life-damaging, I fear...
There’s so much I could say about my experiences as a late Boomer woman growing up in the US, most of it painful. I think we must be raised to see other women as rivals instead of allies. It’s disheartening. As to leader of the free world and its companion, greatest nation, the now famous clip of Jeff Daniels’ answer to a question in the show The Newsroom says it best for me, even if some of the stats might be a bit dated. I LOVE my country, but by what measure are we “the greatest nation on earth?”
That's a great speech from "THE NEWSROOM"!
It was a great show. We loved it.
I saved this to read until after I saw Wicked this week. Your essay really summed up how I felt. I am ready to go see it again!
I'm glad to hear you loved it!
Interesting read and peaked my curiosity, considered buying tickets for my girls in Florida, but then saw the ticket prices, that don't include popcorn, etc. Understand why many will wait till it can be seen at home, and now wondering if it gets banned like our books? Not ruling out anything these days.
If you give it a couple of weeks, I'm sure a morning screening will drop in price. I know money is tight for most of us these days, but it's definitely a film girls need to see, in my opinion. As for Florida and the possibility of art getting banned...I'm not ruling anything out either, so don't let them make you feel crazy for thinking it's a possibility.
I only worry about what I can control. Years of working in DC has me too jaded. Do have some FOMO on getting to see this movie as 1000 miles away from my household in a very rural community no going to the movies for me. Would involve carrying two oxygen tanks, my wheelchair and too much risk with a compromised immune system thanks to chemo drugs. But I do like to keep up and see to it that my all female next three generations in my Florida home are exposed to arts that aide in sparking their critical thinking in the land of closed minds there.
Then you are seeing it in the absolute best way for you and your family. It sounds like life is challenging at the moment, and I'm sorry to hear that. I hope it gets easier soon.
I honestly had zero interest in seeing this film, but I'm buying a ticket as soon as I get back to NY. Thanks.
I can't promise it will be for you, but it's the perfect film if you cathartically need to scream "fuck you" at America right now - not to mention muster a little hope and defiance.
I wasn't sure if last night I was ready for a two-hour forty minute film that started at 10:30pm after commercials, but I went. SO glad I did. I didn't know the story (other than the traditional classic tale), but the time went by like a shot, and I'm actually making plans to go see it again with my wife, who had seen it while on a trip to visit our kids in San Francisco last week.
A couple quick thoughts - the part that really "got" me wasn't Elphaba grasping the broomstick. Going in blind, (spoilers here for anyone else reading) I thought she was the wicked witch who died at the beginning of the film. Experiencing her innocence and hopes and dreams as she sang, "The Wizard and I," it still makes me tear up thinking about it even now, even though I know more about where everything is headed.
The rest of the story is, of course, even more resonant today through so many of the movie's threads - secret meetings, speech police, authoritarian tactics, etc.
I was discussing this with my wife as well, and I wondered why some of the people in our family who also liked the film didn't have any issue with its message (based on what are usually hyper-tuned "Hollywood woke-ism" detectors in said family members). She said she didn't think they got the message. My wife thinks people really need to be hit over the head with it, or they don't see it. I'm asking how do they not see it? I wasn't a fan of "Don't Look Up" when it came out because I thought it was WAY too on-the-nose, but I know many people who loved it for that very reason.
I'm currently about halfway through the fourth season of "The Boys," and the showrunner apparently decided the same thing because they're laying it on REALLY thick this season - to the point where they're using the actual messaging we hear from the right. I remember reading how shocked some viewers were that the show had "suddenly" turned its main character into a villain. How did they not know that these were villains from seasons one through three??
I guess I shouldn't be surprised. I'm a huge Trek fan and I remember people getting upset with "too much diversity" in the newer shows. I think maybe I just don't understand people. Can we have hope as writers that the stories we want to tell will have an impact even if people don't actively recognize the real stories we're telling?
Anyway. I loved the movie, and will be eagerly awaiting the continuation. In fact, now I'm probably (selfishly) going to have to surprise my wife with Broadway tickets for our anniversary in April.
Thanks again for the recommendation. As I said, this isn't something I ever would have seen otherwise.
EDIT: Oh, and sorry my "couple of quick thoughts" turned into an essay.
Hahaha, I don't mind essays! Though I am out in Sydney today, and I can't give it a full response. What I can say is that people see what they want to see. "THE BOYS" plays like a super-hero story for fascism if you have fascist inclinations. I think of it as a Rorschach test, to some degree. The showrunner certainly decided it was time to blow up their fantasies.
I'm so glad you enjoyed the film, though. Do we have to hit people over the head with it? I worry in this culture, where everything is so lost in nonsense, where nobody even has a clear sense of right and wrong anymore...maybe? Sigh.
It's all good, Cole. I wasn't interested because it wasn't targeted at me. But some of my most favorite pieces of art often turn out to be things that were out of my view but that someone I respect recommended. I'll go in open, and yeah - I'm in the mood to scream "fuck you" at America right now, so anything that matches that mood is well worth $20. Keep up the good work. And thank you.
And thank you for becoming a paid supporter, Aaron. I know times are hard right now, but you really do make a difference to my work here!
I haven't seen the movie or the stage show, but I've been aware of the plot details for a while, and I've read your article…
So, serious question:
How can this be set up as anything besides an awful tragedy if this story shows the main character isn't an evil witch but is instead a young righteous freedom fighter, and the Wizard is a manipulative fascist… When everybody knows that at the climax of the Wizard of Oz movie, he succeeds in having her murdered?
It's difficult to answer this question without giving away the ending, which I'm loathe to do in a public space where others could read about it. What I can say is that much of the story is tragic, and its ending is tragic in its own way too, but that ending also comes with a twist victory. There is hope and change to be found...
I haven't been able to see it yet, so I'm going to do what you suggest, and come back to this once I have!
Enjoy!
Thank-you for warning me about the propaganda of Wicked Pt.1 (I know you will love Wicked Pt. 12 as well, as that's what Hollywood does best now: remake a remake of a borrowed story-line of an American classic.) Perhaps we'll get spin-offs with characters named Kamala and Obama. You've save me mucho dinero, 'cause I'm Biden-broke. Just to highlight a point, women who vote for a candidate because that candidate has a vagina (rather than coherent policies) and dark skin (that's called racism) are stupid, and deserve the socio/eonomic position they're in. No political candidate who says things like, "Nothing comes to mind that I would have done differently," will ever be elected president, thank God. All that means is, the candidate hasn't a brain. Back to Hollywood, on second thought, you may not see a Wicked Pt. 2, as few people like to be bludgeoned by obvious propaganda on his own dime .. let alone $15.00 for a ticket!
Hi Jenean, you seem like you're struggling and have nothing left to give the world except anger and frustration. I hope someone is taking care of you this holiday season.
Save you condescending fake pity for someone who needs it. Anger & frustration? Are you nuts? I’m thrilled Trump was re-elected. It means I can travel because gas prices will fall, and I can get out of the grocery store for less than 40.00$! I say prayers of thanksgiving nightly. I’m no Bible-thumper, but I do think this election saved the country from Bolshevism. No, the anger and frustration you hear is the moaning and groaning of the Left (with hair on fire) that drown out the rejoicing going on at the thought of massive deportations that will save lives and the economy. Hallelulia. As for film and Hollywood, prove me wrong … the content and distribution problems are just as bad as the content and quality of the movies today. I really do thank-you for telling me the straight skinny on the film. The last movie I paid to see in a theater is Battleship. Well worth it. But … the movie, sequel, prequel, blah-blah merry-go-wrong is boring. Fast and Furious 5? Saw 5? That makes me made as hell considering I’ve read and written better material than that.
I honestly struggle to understand how you get through the day with so much rage built up inside you. There is good medical care out there, though I know that's not available to everyone and will become more inaccessible going forward. But if you can, anti-depressants have done wonders for many people in my life - though I don't know if they could ever help make BATTLESHIP a better film.
The reason I like Battleship was because of the Mighty Mo. I’m a history kind’a person, so seeing the big ship at sea (CGI, of course) was wonderful. One of my real favorite film clips is the Japanese surrender on the deck with all the men looking on. I thought Midway was good, too. People panned Pearl Harbor, but I like Ben Affleck. The Battleship story was average, but all the battle scenes were better on the big screen, as far as I see it. I’d love to see Zulu on the big screen, although with the size of the screens getting ever bigger, it’s better now. Wait…we saw Top Gun II in the theater. Yeah, but that was a given for the flight-fight scenes. But, my favorite genre is still noir.
Hi Jenean, thank you for sharing your thoughts on some pieces of art you enjoyed. I think it's obvious to you that we don't see politically eye to eye; you spent a lot of time here talking about what you're frustrated about, while I spend much of my time here at Substack talking about other people's pain and suffering -- in between talking about storytelling, art, and culture in general, that is. Specifically, I try to talk about how we can better understand ourselves and form connections with others through these things. Because you avoided any language I find offensive, I tried to treat you with a bit of empathy myself, which you mistake as condescension. It is to a degree, of course, because I think you're grossly misinformed. I don't need to be convinced otherwise. But if you stick around here and read more of my Substack -- and I hope you do -- please know I can't tolerate troll-like rage comments that add nothing to this world. If you want to show up for positive interactions, like this last one, please do. You might also start to understand why I and others see the world differently than you do. Take care of yourself.