Wow… I’m glad you can look back now and find some humor. You certainly have perseverance. What a cutthroat business yours can be, driven by oversized egos and self-importance. Thank you for the peek inside that world!
Thanks as always for your honesty in sharing stories like this, Cole! And for all the advice and wisdom that comes from them. I've heard people advise taking time before acting on producers' notes because your instinct, your immediate reaction might be to be angry, think 'fuck them!' etc... But in my experience, as a recovering people-pleaser, it's far more likely that my immediate instinct is to roll over and go 'Sure!' to whatever they ask or suggest. My growth (hopefully as a person as well as a writer!) has meant I've learned how to judge this better, I think. I hope!
These days, as long as I see producers acting in good faith -- even if I find their ideas as storytellers pretty shit -- I just let it happen to me because, by the time I get home, 10 to 20% of those notes will somehow manifest in the work and hopefully fix whatever was wrong to begin with. This isn't a universal rule. In the UK, in particular, I have worked with several producers whose notes are so collaboratively interrogative and, ultimately, surgical that I tend to do everything single one. Hollywood is a factory, is an important difference. A producer there read twenty different drafts that week they gave you notes. A UK producer has far fewer projects and they come in across a longer period of time. Thus, when they do sit down with you, they very likely read your draft two, three, four times. They wrote endless questions. They caught all your mistakes. When I find those producers, I try not to let them go. The work might be more intense, but the outcome is far better and inevitably gets me a lot more work, too.
When you said you had written 26 drafts and still not been paid (if my understanding is correct) because they had not accepted the script, I plotzed! Gads.
You’re paid in steps, so I was paid a commencement fee but couldn’t be paid for delivery of my first draft — impacting my ability to pay bills and forcing me to rack up unnecessary credit card interest.
Damn, this instructed me on so many levels. Killer choice using beat sheet as the form too. Your story had me on the edge of my seat. What advice would you have given yourself in that situation in order to give yourself a chance of getting the film made and/or solidifying your reputation?
The best advice I would've given myself is: say yes to everything and go home and write what you think is best. This is a rule most emerging screenwriters need to understand. Producers and studio execs want to be heard. Their notes aren't always meant to be literally addressed. This would've eliminated half of the frustration that developed and, therefore, probably cut the work in half. But at the end of the day, there was no getting around the fact that the producers hated the film I sold and wanted something entirely different. There is no getting over that hump. Had my managers supported my idea in the first place, we would've shared it with several producers rather than just the one, and maybe gone a different route...but that's sliding doors territory.
"Say yes to everything and go home and write what you think is best" reminds me of a great bit in Tootsie where Jeff asks Michael how he deals with his horrible director, and Michael says something along the lines of: "He tells me what he wants, I do it my way, he bawls me out, I apologise". It's always stayed with me as a good way of approaching certain people/situations...!
Ha, yes! It isn't a perfect parallel, but it overlaps. With screenwriting, one of the tricks is to understand that what's said in a room isn't set in stone. It's someone throwing ideas at you, with no discipline most of the time, overlooking the fact that they're in the role of an employer who's apparently issuing instructions. I'm a blue-collar kid. I do what I'm told, or at least I did. You tell me you want X, I tell you why that might be a problem, but I'll go home and try to give you X no matter how bad that idea was. Now, I know to have the conversation, go home, and execute what feels most right about the conversation and discard everything else. One of the reasons for this is that the producer, in their undisciplined throwing out of notes, will have forgotten most of what they said anyway.
I avoid working in Hollywood most of the time and don't pursue projects of this size and type anymore, but if I were to pursue it today, I'd probably write it on spec and then use established relationships and my reps to try to place it in the market. Inevitability, I would be told it would then have to be packaged with a director and/or star, too - one of the reasons I can't be bothered with the US system anymore. I have bills to pay and pursuing speculative work for years on end, when it's not a deeply personal script, doesn't work for me anymore.
You may have written about this, if not — Would you be against sharing your strategy & tactics on what markets you pick to sell into and how you do it?
I don't write about things like that in article format, unfortunately. It veers too close to instruction for my tastes. For paid subscribers, I host a monthly Q&A chat where people can ask me anything about art, such as this, and I try to answer as best as I can.
Twenty-six drafts! That’s agonising. What a brutal experience. Glad you were resilient enough to keep working and writing afterwards. It must be so easy to get trampled.
There is a very low percentage of screenwriters who successfully earn a pension through the WGA -- in part because of the kind of behavior that's described in this article.
I can imagine. I enjoy TV dramas that go "behind the scenes" with scriptwriters (Episodes, 30 Rock). You get the impression that some of the more ridiculous plotlines are probably not as ridiculous as the real thing!
The question isn’t, “How did this terrible film get made?” The real question is, “How did this great film get made?” Because great films are miracles in the Hollywood development process.
Clearly part of the answer is good producers. Having read memoirs by a couple of producers (Linda Obst & Christine Vachon) it's clear that they're often fighting for the vision of a film, but if the producer isn't helpful . . .
The question becomes: whose vision is it before there is even a director on it? Any random producer’s or the screenwriter whose unique idea/take was bought?
You give me an idea (which is probably dumb, because I'm just talking out of my ass here, but I'm going to offer it in the spirit of brainstorming).
I think of a producer's skill as partially being managing logistics (which is not necessarily something writers are great at). When it comes time to make a movie the producer helps make sure that the process which turns studio money into images on screen is running more-or-less efficiently.
It makes sense that studio's wouldn't want to turn that sort of decision making over to a writer. They want to keep their stake in the project as small as possible without the producer (or someone equivalent) being in a position to make the decisions about whether it's worth putting in more money.
But, I wonder if this might be a specific case in which AI could be helpful. What if the contract with the writer sets a point at which the Studio has to make one of three choices (1) say "no" and not buy the script. (2) say "yes" and produce a check to the writer or (3) write a $50K check, say, to have the writer work with someone to produce an AI-video storyboard of the first act of the movie (I'm thinking the writer get $10K or so, the video-story boarder gets $40K, but the writer gets creative control -- they get to review the produced animation , request edits, and make revisions for as long as they want allowed by the budget) and then the video and script together are submitted for review by the studio.
It would give a chance for the writer to have an inexpensive (relatively speaking) stage at which they get to try to instantiate their vision.
There's a lot to consider here, but two initial thoughts:
1) There are many types of producers. Some are stronger at development, but shit at production. Some are pure production and should never confuse what they do with storytelling.
2) I've known a lot of writers in my life. They're not all people who have visions. They can tell a story, but even basic visual storytelling can be lost on many of them. I've worked with several directors I could say the same about, albeit in television. What I mean is, writers are vital and are the foundation of any film, but realizing a film is a very different skill set.
Thanks. I do think you identity some clear ways in which my proposal is not a good fit -- and the point of the brainstorm is to try to think about how to give the writer more authority over their vision while still letting the studio define the scope of the project.
Dancing Monkey Productions…LOVE IT!!!!!!
So freaking helpful and generous of you to share. Thank you!
You're welcome!
Wow… I’m glad you can look back now and find some humor. You certainly have perseverance. What a cutthroat business yours can be, driven by oversized egos and self-importance. Thank you for the peek inside that world!
You're welcome, Sally. Thanks, as always, for reading.
That's a great tale of many twisted things. Wonderful!
I'm glad to hear you enjoyed the read, Peter. It's a twisted story, indeed.
Thanks as always for your honesty in sharing stories like this, Cole! And for all the advice and wisdom that comes from them. I've heard people advise taking time before acting on producers' notes because your instinct, your immediate reaction might be to be angry, think 'fuck them!' etc... But in my experience, as a recovering people-pleaser, it's far more likely that my immediate instinct is to roll over and go 'Sure!' to whatever they ask or suggest. My growth (hopefully as a person as well as a writer!) has meant I've learned how to judge this better, I think. I hope!
These days, as long as I see producers acting in good faith -- even if I find their ideas as storytellers pretty shit -- I just let it happen to me because, by the time I get home, 10 to 20% of those notes will somehow manifest in the work and hopefully fix whatever was wrong to begin with. This isn't a universal rule. In the UK, in particular, I have worked with several producers whose notes are so collaboratively interrogative and, ultimately, surgical that I tend to do everything single one. Hollywood is a factory, is an important difference. A producer there read twenty different drafts that week they gave you notes. A UK producer has far fewer projects and they come in across a longer period of time. Thus, when they do sit down with you, they very likely read your draft two, three, four times. They wrote endless questions. They caught all your mistakes. When I find those producers, I try not to let them go. The work might be more intense, but the outcome is far better and inevitably gets me a lot more work, too.
When you said you had written 26 drafts and still not been paid (if my understanding is correct) because they had not accepted the script, I plotzed! Gads.
You’re paid in steps, so I was paid a commencement fee but couldn’t be paid for delivery of my first draft — impacting my ability to pay bills and forcing me to rack up unnecessary credit card interest.
And I thought book publishers were shit about paying their bills.
Damn, this instructed me on so many levels. Killer choice using beat sheet as the form too. Your story had me on the edge of my seat. What advice would you have given yourself in that situation in order to give yourself a chance of getting the film made and/or solidifying your reputation?
The best advice I would've given myself is: say yes to everything and go home and write what you think is best. This is a rule most emerging screenwriters need to understand. Producers and studio execs want to be heard. Their notes aren't always meant to be literally addressed. This would've eliminated half of the frustration that developed and, therefore, probably cut the work in half. But at the end of the day, there was no getting around the fact that the producers hated the film I sold and wanted something entirely different. There is no getting over that hump. Had my managers supported my idea in the first place, we would've shared it with several producers rather than just the one, and maybe gone a different route...but that's sliding doors territory.
"Say yes to everything and go home and write what you think is best" reminds me of a great bit in Tootsie where Jeff asks Michael how he deals with his horrible director, and Michael says something along the lines of: "He tells me what he wants, I do it my way, he bawls me out, I apologise". It's always stayed with me as a good way of approaching certain people/situations...!
Ha, yes! It isn't a perfect parallel, but it overlaps. With screenwriting, one of the tricks is to understand that what's said in a room isn't set in stone. It's someone throwing ideas at you, with no discipline most of the time, overlooking the fact that they're in the role of an employer who's apparently issuing instructions. I'm a blue-collar kid. I do what I'm told, or at least I did. You tell me you want X, I tell you why that might be a problem, but I'll go home and try to give you X no matter how bad that idea was. Now, I know to have the conversation, go home, and execute what feels most right about the conversation and discard everything else. One of the reasons for this is that the producer, in their undisciplined throwing out of notes, will have forgotten most of what they said anyway.
Biz question — Would you still pitch it to multiple producers in today’s market? Or take a different approach?
I avoid working in Hollywood most of the time and don't pursue projects of this size and type anymore, but if I were to pursue it today, I'd probably write it on spec and then use established relationships and my reps to try to place it in the market. Inevitability, I would be told it would then have to be packaged with a director and/or star, too - one of the reasons I can't be bothered with the US system anymore. I have bills to pay and pursuing speculative work for years on end, when it's not a deeply personal script, doesn't work for me anymore.
You may have written about this, if not — Would you be against sharing your strategy & tactics on what markets you pick to sell into and how you do it?
I don't write about things like that in article format, unfortunately. It veers too close to instruction for my tastes. For paid subscribers, I host a monthly Q&A chat where people can ask me anything about art, such as this, and I try to answer as best as I can.
Nice. Just became a paid subscriber.
Twenty-six drafts! That’s agonising. What a brutal experience. Glad you were resilient enough to keep working and writing afterwards. It must be so easy to get trampled.
There is a very low percentage of screenwriters who successfully earn a pension through the WGA -- in part because of the kind of behavior that's described in this article.
I can imagine. I enjoy TV dramas that go "behind the scenes" with scriptwriters (Episodes, 30 Rock). You get the impression that some of the more ridiculous plotlines are probably not as ridiculous as the real thing!
Oh gosh, that's a great and terrifying story-- it makes the process sound like writing a good script just buys you a ticket to a casino game.
The question isn’t, “How did this terrible film get made?” The real question is, “How did this great film get made?” Because great films are miracles in the Hollywood development process.
Clearly part of the answer is good producers. Having read memoirs by a couple of producers (Linda Obst & Christine Vachon) it's clear that they're often fighting for the vision of a film, but if the producer isn't helpful . . .
The question becomes: whose vision is it before there is even a director on it? Any random producer’s or the screenwriter whose unique idea/take was bought?
You give me an idea (which is probably dumb, because I'm just talking out of my ass here, but I'm going to offer it in the spirit of brainstorming).
I think of a producer's skill as partially being managing logistics (which is not necessarily something writers are great at). When it comes time to make a movie the producer helps make sure that the process which turns studio money into images on screen is running more-or-less efficiently.
It makes sense that studio's wouldn't want to turn that sort of decision making over to a writer. They want to keep their stake in the project as small as possible without the producer (or someone equivalent) being in a position to make the decisions about whether it's worth putting in more money.
But, I wonder if this might be a specific case in which AI could be helpful. What if the contract with the writer sets a point at which the Studio has to make one of three choices (1) say "no" and not buy the script. (2) say "yes" and produce a check to the writer or (3) write a $50K check, say, to have the writer work with someone to produce an AI-video storyboard of the first act of the movie (I'm thinking the writer get $10K or so, the video-story boarder gets $40K, but the writer gets creative control -- they get to review the produced animation , request edits, and make revisions for as long as they want allowed by the budget) and then the video and script together are submitted for review by the studio.
It would give a chance for the writer to have an inexpensive (relatively speaking) stage at which they get to try to instantiate their vision.
There's a lot to consider here, but two initial thoughts:
1) There are many types of producers. Some are stronger at development, but shit at production. Some are pure production and should never confuse what they do with storytelling.
2) I've known a lot of writers in my life. They're not all people who have visions. They can tell a story, but even basic visual storytelling can be lost on many of them. I've worked with several directors I could say the same about, albeit in television. What I mean is, writers are vital and are the foundation of any film, but realizing a film is a very different skill set.
Thanks. I do think you identity some clear ways in which my proposal is not a good fit -- and the point of the brainstorm is to try to think about how to give the writer more authority over their vision while still letting the studio define the scope of the project.
It's not a trivial problem.
So a lot of them are actually like Monty Python's Larry Saltzburg: "If there's one thing I can't stand, it's people who have heart attacks!"
Yep. Far from all, but a lot are...well.
AWESOME STORY! Thank you for sharing. 👏👏💙
Thanks for reading, Yolanda!