I agree with you that #6 is essential! However, #5 is my personal nemesis. There is always a scene, or even just a sentence, that is so perfect, except it doesn't work. Man oh man, do I find it hard to give them the push.
I find that I edit so much I no longer even pause to consider if I like something. My only metric is, is it working for the script or book today? I can always go back and recover it from a previous document if it later "works" again.
Yes! With all due respect to Mr. Steinbeck, I usually revise the previous day's work to get that voice in my head again, and then press forward. But excellent advice, all around.
As I said elsewhere in the comments, I start every morning revising everything I wrote the day before and, quite often, the entire project. When I wrote my first novel, I would edit 10 to 50 pages before I even moved on, just bringing the whole manuscript into line with where the characters were taking me. It's been at least 15 years since I wrote something straight through before editing, and everything I wrote in that period of my life is generally stuff I don't share with people anymore - even the ones I was paid good money to write.
Those tips are exceptionally valuable! Especially #3. I think that it’s going to help a lot of writers, me included, zero in on their target much faster when writing. It’s an efficient way to stay on topic. :)
My experience is that rewriting is most of the job. I've learned to see it as the most pleasurable part of the experience, which required a lot of mental gymnastics.
Cole, found this to be interesting as I am reading all of Steinbeck's works in chronological order this year and sharing my experiences with my readers. https://matthewmlong.substack.com/p/the-complete-works-of-john-steinbeck. I do agree that #2 is odd but it seemed to be what worked for him.
I couldn't agree more with the second one. When writing, I would kick the editing me out of the room, leaving only the freewriting me. I trust the editing me so the freewriting me can write boldly.
re point 2 – i usually rewrite as i go, but have on the occasion done the "vomit draft" thing where i've just powered through to the end – i'm not sure which i prefer
rewriting as you work feels 'safer' to me, and you (eventually) end up with something much more polished ... although some of it will still end up getting chucked during the final editing – the decisions made harder due to the sunk cost fallacy
the vomit draft is exhilarating – and you find yourself shocked by how quickly you can knockout a draft – sure it's kind of terrible, but because of how little time you've spent on it, you tend to be more willing to make the necessary changes
for me, i think choosing between the two processes depends on the nature of the script and/or how much prep i've done up until the point where i *have* to start writing
Hi Cole thanks for sharing ! I love writing tips - also one from guy de Maupassant which is just get black on white . I was also wondering when u do those artist on artist interviews , how do u do your transcriptions ? Software etc ? I’m hoping to do similar interviews in my country Singapore n hope to learn from u
I still don’t edit as a write, more so I might throw out the scene. So why waste time perfecting a prototype? Plus the way computers work now you can always go back to the old version.
It’s probably why I don’t rewrite yesterday’s scene before I start today. I just cut a huge scene revolving around the clean out of a hoarders house. It may be full of mistakes. Oh well it’s in the trash now.
The first handful of drafts is just to get the raw story in.
Heist story. Ok so who is robbing what? How do they do it? Who’s the fence, what is it they are stealing? Who are these people?
After I get that in now I do care about the spelling and grammar. Till then I can’t be bothered. I just cut a long scene several characters in a hoarders house. It didn’t move the story forward.
To me, a former video editor it makes sense. You don’t color correct, fix audio to damn near Final Cut levels and you’re still putting it together. Why do all that and the scene may not make the locked picture?
Most editors don’t do this. (Which in my time it was somewhat a hardware issue as all that useless rendering is all for not should you cut. That of course affects space on your drives).
Video editors will use -well I did, two scratch tracks to get workable audio. If you had a halfway decent DP there’s nothing to do get a better look, until color correction.
I’ve always said writers should take an editing course from something written. It’s a lot different when you’re cutting not just the writers words but the directors and actors work too(if it’s really bad the cinematographers
I rewrite everything I write...the next morning before I start in on new work. Every new scene reveals something to me that might color previous ones, and I would lose that if I waited until the end. Though I did try editing in reverse once...which did not go well.
I had to stop doing that, even being the OC perfectionist that I am, because I ended up changing the timbre of the narrative and then I had to rewrite everything up to that point lol.
I leave myself open to that. I try to let the book tell me what it is. It's not a process that works for everyone, but it's a process that works for me at this point in my life. Next year, I might feel differently.
Oh no, I agree, my stories write themselves, when they get flowing. It's my idiot brain that tries to wonk up the process with insistence on proper syntax and traditional plotting methods. The logic gunks up the magic, of course. :)
I agree — I don’t follow #2 (I usually go back and re-read, editing lightly as I go, my last writing session’s result to get back into the flow of the story in my next writing session). And 100% agree with #6. Complete with hand gestures and blocking the movement (once I have the initial dialogue spoken/typed).
Would definitely "share" IF I could get back onto Facebook, an entity that seems to endlessly frustrate me, but that is not the theme here. Would like to know why you, Cole, disagree with the second item (#2)? Cannot say that I do, although that is not how I generally write myself. Find myself writing scenes, them deciding the order, which stay in and which go - often rewriting them as I go along... When this confuses or frustrates, will stop for a while, then try to go back and pick it all up again. Must admit this process has slowed the process, but so far this has worked for me. Have I answered my own question? I dunno, but we all have our own process, really....
I agree with you that #6 is essential! However, #5 is my personal nemesis. There is always a scene, or even just a sentence, that is so perfect, except it doesn't work. Man oh man, do I find it hard to give them the push.
I find that I edit so much I no longer even pause to consider if I like something. My only metric is, is it working for the script or book today? I can always go back and recover it from a previous document if it later "works" again.
Interesting, though I do think each writer needs to find a personal rhythm. For me, editing as I go is sometimes valuable.
Yes! With all due respect to Mr. Steinbeck, I usually revise the previous day's work to get that voice in my head again, and then press forward. But excellent advice, all around.
As I said elsewhere in the comments, I start every morning revising everything I wrote the day before and, quite often, the entire project. When I wrote my first novel, I would edit 10 to 50 pages before I even moved on, just bringing the whole manuscript into line with where the characters were taking me. It's been at least 15 years since I wrote something straight through before editing, and everything I wrote in that period of my life is generally stuff I don't share with people anymore - even the ones I was paid good money to write.
Those tips are exceptionally valuable! Especially #3. I think that it’s going to help a lot of writers, me included, zero in on their target much faster when writing. It’s an efficient way to stay on topic. :)
all very sensible advice. i do the dialogue thing myself, with accents and everything. i always fail on the editing and re-editing...
My experience is that rewriting is most of the job. I've learned to see it as the most pleasurable part of the experience, which required a lot of mental gymnastics.
Right on the money! Especially, don't rewrite until you have the whole thing down. The flow and rhythm are just as important as everything else.
Cole, found this to be interesting as I am reading all of Steinbeck's works in chronological order this year and sharing my experiences with my readers. https://matthewmlong.substack.com/p/the-complete-works-of-john-steinbeck. I do agree that #2 is odd but it seemed to be what worked for him.
Thanks for sharing, Matthew! I'll try to check this out ASAP.
I couldn't agree more with the second one. When writing, I would kick the editing me out of the room, leaving only the freewriting me. I trust the editing me so the freewriting me can write boldly.
re point 2 – i usually rewrite as i go, but have on the occasion done the "vomit draft" thing where i've just powered through to the end – i'm not sure which i prefer
rewriting as you work feels 'safer' to me, and you (eventually) end up with something much more polished ... although some of it will still end up getting chucked during the final editing – the decisions made harder due to the sunk cost fallacy
the vomit draft is exhilarating – and you find yourself shocked by how quickly you can knockout a draft – sure it's kind of terrible, but because of how little time you've spent on it, you tend to be more willing to make the necessary changes
for me, i think choosing between the two processes depends on the nature of the script and/or how much prep i've done up until the point where i *have* to start writing
Hi Cole thanks for sharing ! I love writing tips - also one from guy de Maupassant which is just get black on white . I was also wondering when u do those artist on artist interviews , how do u do your transcriptions ? Software etc ? I’m hoping to do similar interviews in my country Singapore n hope to learn from u
I highly recommend Rev for for transcriptions. It's the best AI version I've seen, and gets about 98% there. Then, you do a polish.
I still don’t edit as a write, more so I might throw out the scene. So why waste time perfecting a prototype? Plus the way computers work now you can always go back to the old version.
It’s probably why I don’t rewrite yesterday’s scene before I start today. I just cut a huge scene revolving around the clean out of a hoarders house. It may be full of mistakes. Oh well it’s in the trash now.
The first handful of drafts is just to get the raw story in.
Heist story. Ok so who is robbing what? How do they do it? Who’s the fence, what is it they are stealing? Who are these people?
After I get that in now I do care about the spelling and grammar. Till then I can’t be bothered. I just cut a long scene several characters in a hoarders house. It didn’t move the story forward.
To me, a former video editor it makes sense. You don’t color correct, fix audio to damn near Final Cut levels and you’re still putting it together. Why do all that and the scene may not make the locked picture?
Most editors don’t do this. (Which in my time it was somewhat a hardware issue as all that useless rendering is all for not should you cut. That of course affects space on your drives).
Video editors will use -well I did, two scratch tracks to get workable audio. If you had a halfway decent DP there’s nothing to do get a better look, until color correction.
I’ve always said writers should take an editing course from something written. It’s a lot different when you’re cutting not just the writers words but the directors and actors work too(if it’s really bad the cinematographers
Love #2 and #6, because that's usually what I do, write freely, impulsively and instinctively. I call it writing in flow
It's true, rewrite in process is not a good idea. Let it wait until the last word.
I rewrite everything I write...the next morning before I start in on new work. Every new scene reveals something to me that might color previous ones, and I would lose that if I waited until the end. Though I did try editing in reverse once...which did not go well.
I had to stop doing that, even being the OC perfectionist that I am, because I ended up changing the timbre of the narrative and then I had to rewrite everything up to that point lol.
I leave myself open to that. I try to let the book tell me what it is. It's not a process that works for everyone, but it's a process that works for me at this point in my life. Next year, I might feel differently.
Oh no, I agree, my stories write themselves, when they get flowing. It's my idiot brain that tries to wonk up the process with insistence on proper syntax and traditional plotting methods. The logic gunks up the magic, of course. :)
I agree — I don’t follow #2 (I usually go back and re-read, editing lightly as I go, my last writing session’s result to get back into the flow of the story in my next writing session). And 100% agree with #6. Complete with hand gestures and blocking the movement (once I have the initial dialogue spoken/typed).
Would definitely "share" IF I could get back onto Facebook, an entity that seems to endlessly frustrate me, but that is not the theme here. Would like to know why you, Cole, disagree with the second item (#2)? Cannot say that I do, although that is not how I generally write myself. Find myself writing scenes, them deciding the order, which stay in and which go - often rewriting them as I go along... When this confuses or frustrates, will stop for a while, then try to go back and pick it all up again. Must admit this process has slowed the process, but so far this has worked for me. Have I answered my own question? I dunno, but we all have our own process, really....
Great tips! I also like to write as much as possible, let it sit, and then go back and revise. I like to get the ideas out first!